Arnold Rowland was born
in Corpus Christi, Texas, on 29th April, 1945. After graduating from
high school in June, 1963, Rowland found employment in Oregon. This
included work as a shipping clerk and clothes salesman. He later returned
to Texas where he became involved in promotional advertising.
In 1963 Rowland was working
as a part-time pizzamaker at the Pizza Inn in Dallas. He was also
attending classes at W. H. Adamson High School. On 22nd November,
1963, Rowland and his wife, Barbara, went into Dallas to see the visit
of President John
F. Kennedy.
The Rowlands stood at the west entrance of the Dallas County Records
Building on Houston Street, about 150 feet from the sixth floor of
the Texas School Book Depository.
At 12.15 p.m. Rowland saw
a man with a "high-powered rifle" standing about five feet
from the south-west corner window, on the other side of the building
from the "sniper's nest" where it was argued Lee
Harvey Oswald
fired his rifle. He told
the Warren
Commission:
"I noticed on the sixth floor of the building that there was
a man back from the window, not hanging out the window. He was standing
and holding a rifle, This appeared to me to be a fairly high-powered
rifle because of the scope and the relative proportion of the scope
to the rifle..."
Later, Rowland saw another
man with a rifle at the "east end of the building, the one that
they said the shots were fired from". He added that the man was
black, about 55 years old, practically bald and very thin.
Open
Debate on the Kennedy Assassination
History
Matters: Arnold Rowland
(1)
Arnold Rowland, statement at the
Dallas Sheriff's Office (22nd November, 1963)
I am a student at Adamson High School in Dallas, Texas.
I am employed on weekends at the Pizza Inn located on West Davis Avenue
in Dallas. At approximately 12:10 p.m. today, my wife Barbara and
I arrived in downtown Dallas and took position to see the President's
motorcade. We took position at the west entrance of the Sheriff's
Office on Houston Street. We stood there for a time talking about
the security measures that were being made for the president's visit
in view of the recent trouble when Mr. Adelai [sic) Stevenson had
been a recent visitor to Dallas. It must have been 5 or 10 minutes
later when we were just looking at the surrounding buildings when
I looked up at the Texas Book Depository building and noticed that
the second floor from the top had two adjoining windows which were
open, and upon looking I saw what I thought was a man standing back
about 15 feet from the windows and was holding in his arms what appeared
to be a high-powered rifle because it looked like it had a scope on
it. He appeared to be holding this at a parade rest sort of position.
I mentioned this to my wife and merely made the remark that it must
be the secret service men. This man appeared to be a white man and
appeared to have a light colored shirt on, open at the neck. He appeared
to be of slender build and appeared to have dark hair. In about 15
minutes President Kennedy passed the spot where we were standing and
the motorcade had just turned west on Elm heading down the hill when
I heard a noise which I thought to be a back fire. In fact some of
the people around laughed and then in about 8 seconds I heard another
report and in about 3 seconds a third report. My wife, who had ahold
of my hand, started running and dragging me across the street and
I never did look up again at this window.
(2)
Arnold Rowland, interviewed by
Arlen
Specter and Gerald
Ford before the Warren
Commission (10th
March, 1964)
Arnold Rowland: I
noticed on the sixth floor of the building that there was a man back
from the window, not hanging out the window. He was standing and holding
a rifle, This appeared to me to be a fairly high-powered rifle because
of the scope and the relative proportion of the scope to the rifle,
you can tell about what type of rifle it is. You can tell it isn't
a .22, you know, and we thought momentarily that maybe we should tell
someone but then the thought came to us that it is a security agent.
We had seen in the movies before where they have security men up in
windows and places like that with rifles to watch the crowds, and
we brushed it aside as that, at that time, and thought nothing else
about it until after the event happened.
Arlen Specter: Now, by
referring to the photograph on this Commission Exhibit No. 356, will
you point to the window where you observed this man?
Arnold Rowland: This was
very odd. There were this picture was not taken immediately after
that, I don't think, because there were several windows, there are
pairs of windows, and there were several pairs where both windows
were open fully and in each pair there was one or more persons hanging
out the window. Yet this was on the west corner of the building, the
sixth floor, the first floor - second floor down from the top, the
first was the arched, the larger windows, not the arch, but the larger
windows, and this was the only pair of windows where both windows
were completely open and no one was hanging out the windows, or next
to the window. It was this pair of windows here at that time....
Arlen Specter: What is
your best estimate of the distance between where you were standing
and the man holding the rifle whom you have just described?
Arnold Rowland: 150 feet
approximately, very possibly more. I don't know for sure.
Arlen Specter: Are you
very good at judging distances of that sort?
Arnold Rowland: Fairly
good.
Arlen Specter: Have you
had any experience or practice at judging such distances?
Arnold Rowland: Yes. Even
in using the method in physics or, you know, elementary physics of
looking at a position in two different views, you can tell its distance.
I did that quite frequently. And the best r can recollect it was within
150 to 175 feet.
Arlen Specter: Can you
describe the rifle with any more particularity than you already have?
Arnold Rowland: No. In
proportion to the scope it appeared to me to be a .30-odd size 6,
a deer rifle with a fairly large or powerful scope.
Arlen Specter: When you
say, .30-odd-6, exactly what did you mean by that?
Arnold Rowland: That is
a rifle that is used quite frequently for deer hunting. It is an import....
Arlen Specter: Describe,
as best you can, the appearance of the individual whom you saw?
Arnold Rowland: He was
rather slender in proportion to his size. I couldn't tell for sure
whether he was tall and maybe, you know heavy, say 200 pounds, but
tall whether he would be and slender or whether he was medium and
slender, but in proportion to his size his build was slender.
Arlen Specter: Could you
give us an estimate on his height?
Arnold Rowland: No; I couldn't.
That is why I said I can't state what height he would be. He was just
slender in build in proportion with his width. This is something I
find myself doing all the time, comparing things in perspective.
Arlen Specter: Was he a
white man or a Negro or what?
Arnold Rowland: Seemed,
well, I can't state definitely from my position because it was more
or less not fully light or bright in the room. He appeared to be fair
complexioned, not fair, but light complexioned, but dark hair.
Arlen Specter: What race
was he then?
Arnold Rowland: I would
say either a light Latin or a Caucasian.
Arlen Specter: And were
you able to observe any characteristics of his hair?
Arnold Rowland: No; except
that it was dark, probably black.
Arlen Specter: Were you
able to observe whether he had a full head of hair or any characteristic
as to quantity of hair?
Arnold Rowland: It didn't
appear as if he had a receding hairline but I know he didn't have
it hanging on his shoulders. Probably a close cut from - you know
it appeared to me it was either well-combed or close cut.
Arlen Specter: What, if
anything, did you observe as to the clothes he was wearing?
Arnold Rowland: He had
on a light shirt, a very light-colored shirt, white or a light blue
or a color such as that. This was open at the collar. I think it was
unbuttoned about halfway, and then he had a regular T-shirt, a polo
shirt under this, at least this is what it appeared to be. He had
on dark slacks or blue jeans, I couldn't tell from that I didn't see
but a small portion...
Arlen Specter: Were you
able to form any opinion as to the age of that man?
Arnold Rowland: This is
again just my estimation. He was - I think I remember telling my wife
that he appeared in his early thirties. This could be obscured because
of the distance, I mean...
Arlen Specter: When you
saw him, you told her about him, and then did she look in the direction
of the man?
Arnold Rowland: After she
pointed something else out to me she looked in that direction.
Arlen Specter: Did you
then look back toward the direction of, to the window where you had
seen him?
Arnold Rowland: Yes; I
even pointed to it with my wife.
Arlen Specter: Did you
look back at the same time she looked back?
Arnold Rowland: Yes.
Arlen Specter: And when
you looked back what, if anything, did you observe in the window?
Arnold Rowland: There was
nothing there then.
Arlen Specter: Following
that did you and she have any additional conversation about this man
in the window?
Arnold Rowland: We talked
about it momentarily, just for a few seconds that it was of most likelihood
a security man, had a very good vantage point where he could watch
the crowds, talked about the rifle, it looked like a very high-powered
rifle.
Arlen Specter: Did you
mention that to your wife?
Arnold Rowland: Yes; I
did.
Arlen Specter: Have you
described as fully as you can everything you discussed with your wife
at that juncture?
Arnold Rowland: I think
so.
Gerald Ford:
Was there anybody else standing close to you as you had this conversation
with your wife?
Arnold Rowland: There was
a policeman about as far as me to the flag.
Gerald Ford: That is about
how many feet, would you say?
Arnold Rowland: Twelve,
thirteen feet.
Gerald Ford: Did it ever
enter your mind that you should go and tell the policeman of this
sight or this vision that you had seen?
Arnold Rowland:
Really it didn't.
Gerald Ford: It never entered
your mind?
Arnold Rowland: I never
dreamed of anything such as that. I mean, I must honestly say my opinion
was based on movies I have seen, on the attempted assassination of
Theodore Roosevelt where they had Secret Service men up in the building
such as that with rifles watching the crowds, and another one concerned
with attempted assassination of the other one, Franklin Roosevelt.
and both of these had Secret Service men up in windows or on top of
buildings with rifles, and this is how my opinion was based and why
it didn't alarm me. Perhaps if I had been older and had more experience
in life it might have made a difference. It very well could have.
Gerald Ford: After you and your wife looked up and saw that there
was no one in the window, did you ever again look at the window?
Arnold Rowland: Yes; I
did, constantly.
Gerald Ford: And as you
looked at the window subsequently did you ever see anything else in
the window?
Arnold Rowland: No; not
in that window, and I looked back every few seconds, 30 seconds, maybe
twice a minute, occasionally trying to find him so I could point him
out to my wife. Something I would like to note is that the window
that I have been told the shots were actually fired from, I did not
see that, there was someone hanging out that window at that time.
Gerald Ford: At what time
was that?
Arnold Rowland: At the
time I saw the man in the other window, I saw this man hanging out
the window first. It was a colored man, I think.
Gerald Ford: Is this the
same window where you saw the man standing with the rifle?
Arnold Rowland: No; this
was the one on the east end of the building, the one that they said
the shots were fired from.
Gerald Ford: I am not clear
on this now. The window that you saw the man that you describe was
on what end of the building?
Arnold Rowland: The west,
southwest corner.
Gerald Ford: And the man
you saw hanging out from the window was at what corner?
Arnold Rowland: The east,
southeast corner.
Gerald Ford: Southeast
corner. On the same floor?
Arnold Rowland: On the
same floor.
Gerald Ford: When did you
notice him?
Arnold Rowland: This was
before I noticed the other man with the rifle.
Gerald Ford: I see. This
was before you saw the man in the window with the rifle?
Arnold Rowland: Yes. My
wife and I were both looking and making remarks that the people were
hanging out the windows I think the majority of them were colored
people, some of them were hanging out the windows to their waist,
such as this. We made several remarks to this fact, and then she started
watching the colored boy, and I continued to look, and then I saw
the man with the rifle.
Gerald Ford: After 12:22
or thereabouts you indicated you periodically looked back at the window
in the southwest corner where you had seen the man with the rifle
What happened as the motorcade came along?
Arnold Rowland: As the
motorcade came along, there was quite a bit of excitement. 1 didn't
look back from then. I was very interested in trying to see the President
myself. I had seen him twice before but I was interested in seeing
him again.
Gerald Ford: You never again, after the motorcade once came into your
view, looked back at the School Depository Building?
Arnold Rowland: I did after
the shots were fired...
Arlen Specter: Will you
now relate what occurred as the Presidential motorcade passed by you?
Arnold Rowland: Well, the
car turned the corner at Houston and Main. Everyone was rushing, pressing
the cars, trying to get closer. There were quite a few people, you
know, trying to run alongside of the car such as this; officers were
trying to prevent this. The car turned--we had more or less a long
period of time that they were within our sight considering some of
the other people. The car went down Houston, again turned on Elm,
and it was proceeding down Elm when we heard the first of the reports.
This I passed off as a backfire, so did practically everyone in the
area because gobs of people, when I say gobs, I mean almost everyone
in the vicinity, started laughing that couldn't see the motorcade.
The motorcade was obscured from our vision by the crowd.
Arlen Specter: What would
the occasion be for laughter on the sound of a backfire?
Arnold Rowland: I don't
know. A lot of people laughed. I don't know. But a lot of people laughed,
chuckled, such as this. Then approximately 5 seconds, 5 or 6 seconds,
the second report was heard, 2 seconds the third report. After the
second report, I knew what it was, and -
Arlen Specter: What was
it?
Arnold Rowland: I knew
that it was a gun firing.
Arlen Specter: How did
you know that?
Arnold Rowland: I have
been around guns quite a bit in my lifetime.
Arlen Specter: Was the
sound of the fire different from the first and second sounds you described?
Arnold Rowland: No, that
is just it. It did not sound as though there was any return fire in
that sense.
Arlen Specter: What do
you mean by return fire?
Arnold Rowland: That anyone
fired back. You know, anyone in the procession such as our detectives
or Secret Service men fired back at anything else. It gave the report
of a rifle which most of the Secret Service men don't carry in a holster
although I am sure they had some in the cars but the following two
shots were the same report being of the same intensity, I state, because
from a different position I know that the same rifle is not going
to make the same sound in two different positions especially in a
position such as it was, because of the ricocheting of sound and echo
effects.
Arlen Specter: What is
your basis for saying that, Mr. Rowland, that the rifle would not
make the same sound in two different positions?
Arnold Rowland: This is
due to a long study of sound and study of echo effects.
Arlen Specter: When had
you conducted that study?
Arnold Rowland: In physics
in the past 3 years.
Arlen Specter: Have you
read any special books on that subject?
Arnold Rowland: Quite a
few....
Arlen Specter: Can you describe the second sound by comparison with
the first sound which you have described as being similar to a backfire?
Arnold Rowland: The second
to my recollection was identical or as closely as could be.
Arlen Specter: How about
the third shot?
Arnold Rowland: The same.
Arlen Specter: Sounded
the same to you?
Arnold Rowland: Yes.
Arlen Specter: Did you
have any impression or reaction as to the point of origin when you
heard the first noise?
Arnold Rowland: Well, I
began looking, I didn't look at the building mainly, and as practically
any of' the police officers that were there then will tell you, the
echo effect was such that it sounded like it came from the railroad
yards. That is where I looked, that is where all the policemen, everyone,
converged on the railroads...
Arlen Specter: Now, as to the second shot, did you have any impression
as to the point of origin or source?
Arnold Rowland: The same
point or very close to it.
Arlen Specter: And how
about the third shot?
Arnold Rowland: Very close
to the same position.
Arlen Specter: After the shots occurred, did you ever look back at
the Texas School Book Depository Building?
Arnold Rowland: No; I did
not. In fact, I went over toward the scene of the railroad yards myself.
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